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Author Topic: To encourage the PHILOSOPHY part of this board...  (Read 11722 times)
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« Reply #20 on: May 21, 2008, 03:40:27 »

I'm always surprised when I read his stuff and biographies on him.

I don't get how they didn't figure out he was a homosexual.
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« Reply #21 on: May 21, 2008, 06:52:45 »

Well, they did. Eventually.
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« Reply #22 on: May 21, 2008, 07:17:16 »



The only ugly things in the world are man made things, so if things that are made by us are ugly then we are going to act in an ugly manner in response to it Smiley

Someone's been watching Stephen Fry on 'Room 101'....
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« Reply #23 on: May 21, 2008, 07:18:42 »

I still don't accept that anyone could believe that such a butch, manly, sexist womaniser was batting for the other team.

He wasn't sexist!
Have you not read 'A Woman of No Importance'??
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« Reply #24 on: May 21, 2008, 07:29:42 »

I still don't accept that anyone could believe that such a butch, manly, sexist womaniser was batting for the other team.

He wasn't sexist!
Have you not read 'A Woman of No Importance'??

Someone seems to be suffering irony-receptors-defficiency  Tongue
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« Reply #25 on: May 21, 2008, 07:39:12 »

*Sighs*
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« Reply #26 on: May 21, 2008, 07:43:01 »

Sorry Zoe  hugsmiley
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« Reply #27 on: May 21, 2008, 07:48:21 »

 Smiley hug
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« Reply #28 on: May 21, 2008, 07:54:25 »

 beast

Any new philosophy for us?
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« Reply #29 on: May 21, 2008, 08:00:42 »

There will be, when I haven't got a headache.
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« Reply #30 on: May 22, 2008, 12:15:43 »

"I think therefore I am"

 upsmiley or  downsmiley?
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« Reply #31 on: May 22, 2008, 12:20:22 »

A good soundbyte but not much a philosophy really.
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« Reply #32 on: May 22, 2008, 12:41:15 »

A good soundbyte but not much a philosophy really.

You've clearly never studied it...

I think, generally, and considering all the stuff that Descartes reasoned before leading up to reaching the 'Cogito' as a conclusion (that even if some deceiving demon is making him think everything he is thinking, he cannot make him think and convince him that he does not exist, and therefore the only thing he can claim with any surety is that he exists purely because he is thinking), I would say  upsmiley
However, I have a massive problem with it in that it applies only to oneself. I can prove to myself that I exist, but I can't prove that anyone else does - they may all be being controlled by the deceiving demon; or they don't exist at all and I'm imagining them... a very lonely world if I'm the only one who I can prove exists...  confused

Also, and this criticism is very hard to demonstrate without an example which I have in a book but is too long to type out (if anyone's got it - The Pig That Wants To Be Eaten and 99 Other Thought Experiments by Julian Baggini, published by Granta Books, pages 184-5), it involves a long monologue in which a number of people (all supposed to be the same person) speak and demonstrate using the 'Cogito' that they all exist. But that they're the same person. It's utterly incoherent, until you discover that they're all actually talking sense, at least in terms of what Descartes was proving.
'Cogito ergo sum' proves that I exist; but it doesn't prove that I'm the same person from day to day, minute to minute. Yes, it proves that we exist, but does not tell us anything about who or what we are, and even whether we continue to exist as the same person over time.

Like I said, difficult to demonstrate without the example; if you ever see the book in a shop or library I'd recommend that you read it; it's good to just pick up, read a bit, think a bit and then put down again. Smiley
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« Reply #33 on: May 22, 2008, 12:50:29 »

A good soundbyte but not much a philosophy really.

You've clearly never studied it...


Well yeah, I was talking about the quote and I wasn't aware that there was any reasoning behind it.

In all fairness, I think I get what he's talking about. On the other hand, I think we need a valid definition of non-existence and what it entails. After all, if I didn't think, would it mean I didn't exist.

And no, I haven't studied any philosophy except in my spare time. I'm hoping to take it next year but that all depends on how I did with my RS gcse.
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« Reply #34 on: May 22, 2008, 12:54:58 »

A good soundbyte but not much a philosophy really.

You've clearly never studied it...


Well yeah, I was talking about the quote and I wasn't aware that there was any reasoning behind it.

In all fairness, I think I get what he's talking about. On the other hand, I think we need a valid definition of non-existence and what it entails. After all, if I didn't think, would it mean I didn't exist.

And no, I haven't studied any philosophy except in my spare time. I'm hoping to take it next year but that all depends on how I did with my RS gcse.

Ahh GCSE RS.... I remember it (not) well...

You should look up Descartes' Three Meditations; that'll give you the summary of how he got to where he got to. *has gone cross-eyed*

Descartes was a dude.     Descartes was a dude.     Descartes was a dude.
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« Reply #35 on: May 22, 2008, 13:03:07 »

I think Descartes makes an error. His project is supposedly to doubt all that can be doubted, no matter how far fetched. But you can doubt the cogito. You could for instance say that the evil demon is all that exists and I am merely a product of his thoughts, any thoughts I have are just his imagination. For instance a more advanced version of : In my head I can imagine a made up character saying, thinking, believing "I think therefore I am". That being the case I think Descartes is wrong to use "I think therefore I am as his starting point. Everything from that point on for me doesn't work, he even has to shoehorn in some added extras like God to try and bring sense to his concepts. His God proof baffled me a lot, "I think therefore I am. I think God therefore God"

"I think therefore I am" works better without the Descartes project, without all the evil demon business.

Descartes project itself, as far as I'm concerned, is flawed from the very start. It's interesting and fun to look at though.

You're spot on about it only proving 'my' existance. My feeling on that issue annoyed some philosophy lecturers but was quite popular among students: Who cares?
Basically even if that is fact does it matter? As long as you never ever ever ever find out (and by most forms of the idea you can't ever find out) what does it matter. This is your reality, and the only reality you'll ever know, even if it's not a real reality, all in your mind, an evil demon, a machine, what does it matter?


I like that minute to minute idea you put there, awesome little ideas like that make me happy.
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« Reply #36 on: May 22, 2008, 13:11:08 »

This is your reality, and the only reality you'll ever know

Ever done salvia?
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« Reply #37 on: May 22, 2008, 13:11:46 »

SALIVA? EEEEEEEEWWWWW
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« Reply #38 on: May 22, 2008, 13:14:19 »

he even has to shoehorn in some added extras like God to try and bring sense to his concepts. His God proof baffled me a lot, "I think therefore I am. I think God therefore God"


Haha, I tend to forget about that bit... I like to ignore the whole 'Using the God Card to solve all the problems with your philosophy' and focus on what comes before that. Playing the God Card is a total cop-out.

Like George Berkeley and his Idealism; "to be is to be perceived", he solves the very obvious flaws (put an apple in a drawer, go away, come back a week later and the apple has rotted - even though no-one was perceiving it) by saying "oh, well that's because God's always perceiving everything" - to me, that doesn't prove anything; infact if anything it disproves it - what's the point in trying to come up with a theory if you're then going to obliterate it by bringing God into it?!
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« Reply #39 on: May 22, 2008, 13:14:35 »

A good soundbyte but not much a philosophy really.

You've clearly never studied it...


Well yeah, I was talking about the quote and I wasn't aware that there was any reasoning behind it.

In all fairness, I think I get what he's talking about. On the other hand, I think we need a valid definition of non-existence and what it entails. After all, if I didn't think, would it mean I didn't exist.

And no, I haven't studied any philosophy except in my spare time. I'm hoping to take it next year but that all depends on how I did with my RS gcse.

Ahh GCSE RS.... I remember it (not) well...

You should look up Descartes' Three Meditations; that'll give you the summary of how he got to where he got to. *has gone cross-eyed*

Descartes was a dude.     Descartes was a dude.     Descartes was a dude.
Same here, I've already forgotten what it was about and how I answered and it was only a few days ago.

Fair enough, I will. If it can do that for you, I'll check it out and try it myself.   Tongue

this is cool
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