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Author Topic: The reason any meaningful parliamentary reform will never happen  (Read 2003 times)
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Mr Cog
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« on: May 06, 2010, 06:45:35 »

It would mean most MPs would be at risk of losing their jobs
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« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2010, 06:51:49 »

vote giddsey
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« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2010, 13:33:59 »

It would mean most MPs would be at risk of losing their jobs

Actually it isn't that more so that it undermines decisive government. Labour promised it and then had a massive majority in 1997 and then going proportional didn't seem so wise.

I want AV+
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« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2010, 13:57:20 »

But no government is going to vote for it because in addition to all the individual MPs risking their positions, the government as a whole risks losing power, and at the very least risks losing a degree of power.
A change in the voting system after so long using the current one is a huge change. and no one can tell what the government will look like afterwards. The key question in the heads of the people who make the decision to reform is not how effective the government would be, but it's who the government would be.
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« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2010, 07:21:17 »

I like the idea of making the house of lords into a second house that is fully pr. you still have the first past the post in the house of commons. everyone is happy (except the peers, bishops and lords, but who really cares what they think?)
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« Reply #5 on: May 07, 2010, 08:17:38 »

I would actually have it the other way around. The house of commons would be proportional representation, so that every ideology is represented in debate. And a second house which is more like our current house of commons, members gain their place on a geographical basis and it would be their job to essentially just represent the majority opinions of their constituents.

At the moment MPs can't represent their constituents because they have to do what the party wants, not what their voters want to an extent. And there are many arguments and viewpoints that don't feature in debates or planning legislature because they simply aren't represented.
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« Reply #6 on: May 07, 2010, 08:26:54 »

the house of lords is full of cunts who happen to be lords. i vote to blow it up.
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« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2010, 12:49:22 »

The house of lords should be full of people chosen at random, like jury duty.
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« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2010, 13:16:48 »

I like the idea of making the house of lords into a second house that is fully pr. you still have the first past the post in the house of commons. everyone is happy (except the peers, bishops and lords, but who really cares what they think?)

The fantastic thing with the House of Lords is that they are experts and what not being appointed in a position to scrutinise legislation. Which is fantastic and better than having politicians. That said I appreciate the need for more democracy. I myself would have a democratically elected house of lords topped up by a "non party alligned" group of cross bench experts who'd have their contracts renewed every year by the government depending what is happening.

I want AV+ I may make a facebook page for it.
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« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2010, 13:27:22 »

I like my idea
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« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2010, 13:40:01 »

it's too convoluted especially the notion that representative democracy is to represent the views of specific people is stupid.

A representative democracy is that you elect a representative to act on your behalf not to represent your specific views.
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« Reply #11 on: May 08, 2010, 03:00:06 »

I like the idea of making the house of lords into a second house that is fully pr. you still have the first past the post in the house of commons. everyone is happy (except the peers, bishops and lords, but who really cares what they think?)

The fantastic thing with the House of Lords is that they are experts and what not being appointed in a position to scrutinise legislation. Which is fantastic and better than having politicians. That said I appreciate the need for more democracy. I myself would have a democratically elected house of lords topped up by a "non party alligned" group of cross bench experts who'd have their contracts renewed every year by the government depending what is happening.

I want AV+ I may make a facebook page for it.

"experts" like Archer, Bishops, and wealthy peers, people who have never had a real regular job, people who dictate down to the plebs and make decisions on their behalf because they are clearly not able to do so themselves, people who were pro hunting with dogs and who continuously bat legislation back to the commons with a massive rejection because it will affect their lives and wouldn't suit them, rather than on what it would do for the country.
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« Reply #12 on: May 08, 2010, 04:08:14 »

it's too convoluted especially the notion that representative democracy is to represent the views of specific people is stupid.
It would mean that the majority views of the country are represented by the majority of parliament, but there would also be a small number of members representing the countries minorities, rather than just a handful of groups of people representing the main groups of people. The point I was trying to make is not that specific people should be represented, it's that the groups of people who aren't represented by the main parties can still have a voice in parliament even if it is a small one.

Proportional representation doesn't even need to be fully proportional, to keep a government stable and decisive the majority of seats can be filled normally, but with a portion of seats filled by proportional representation. Though I do agree that this idea is convoluted and problematic.


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A representative democracy is that you elect a representative to act on your behalf not to represent your specific views.
You've missed the point there, you vote for the candidate who has views closest to your own, because you want the actions of the representative to be as close as possible to what your own actions would be.

Right now perhaps 5% of a constituency might feel that candidate 'A' would be the best person to act on their behalf, but 95% of the voters like candidates 'B' and 'C'. What does the 5% of people do then? They can compromise and decide whether B or C better represents them, or they can waste their vote. Under proportional representation they would have a small number of people acting on their behalf in parliament, even if there weren't enough to have as big an impact as they would like.


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